Thanks for the comments so far. Was not aware that the elders are only told not to discourage victims reporting it to the authorities, rather than actually encouraging the alleged crime to be reported. That is rather disturbing. It seems that this complete lack of proactiveness and "do the bare minimum (& less if possible)" policy is all about protecting the name of the organisation rather than protecting children.
Must obey!
JoinedPosts by Must obey!
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Is it official policy that elders MUST advise the parent to report abuse?
by Must obey! innotwithstanding the plain fact that the watchtower's heinous "two witness" rule is obviously flawed (scripturally and in terms of natural justice), it seems to me that as long as the elders are advising the parent/caregiver to go to the authorities in every case where an accusation of child abuse has occurred that this is sufficient for the elders to discharge their legal duty, shouldn't it?.
i have heard rumours that this is in fact the official current policy (since when i don't know) of the society: that they tell the elders to advise the parent/caregiver to inform the authorities of alleged child abuse.
but how firm is this policy?
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I am needing info about the Ratio of mental Illness in jwdom vs general pop
by sosad ini remember some studies referred to about the rates of suicide etc.
does anyone have that link?.
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Must obey!
There's a lot of fruitcakes in the organisation & Jesus did say by their fruits you will recognise them. So there you have it: all the nutjobs in the org is proof the JW's are the true religion.
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Who got closest to the 2007 anointed prediction?
by Must obey! inthere was a thread on here a few months back where posters were placing their predictions on how many the 2007 memorial partakers would be.
i wonder who was the closest.
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Must obey!
There was a thread on here a few months back where posters were placing their predictions on how many the 2007 memorial partakers would be. I wonder who was the closest.
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Is it official policy that elders MUST advise the parent to report abuse?
by Must obey! innotwithstanding the plain fact that the watchtower's heinous "two witness" rule is obviously flawed (scripturally and in terms of natural justice), it seems to me that as long as the elders are advising the parent/caregiver to go to the authorities in every case where an accusation of child abuse has occurred that this is sufficient for the elders to discharge their legal duty, shouldn't it?.
i have heard rumours that this is in fact the official current policy (since when i don't know) of the society: that they tell the elders to advise the parent/caregiver to inform the authorities of alleged child abuse.
but how firm is this policy?
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Must obey!
Thanks Poztate, but I am specifically asking about any 'official policy' about whether or not elders are told to advise the parent/caregiver/child to go to the authorities? I should have made that clearer.
Elders have certainly in the past discouraged persons from going to the higher authorities, but I don't believe that is the case anymore. The Society has tried to put that right by telling the elders to tell the parent/caregiver that they are fully within their rights to go to the secular authorities, without fear being censured by the elders for doing that? Is that not the case?
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Is it official policy that elders MUST advise the parent to report abuse?
by Must obey! innotwithstanding the plain fact that the watchtower's heinous "two witness" rule is obviously flawed (scripturally and in terms of natural justice), it seems to me that as long as the elders are advising the parent/caregiver to go to the authorities in every case where an accusation of child abuse has occurred that this is sufficient for the elders to discharge their legal duty, shouldn't it?.
i have heard rumours that this is in fact the official current policy (since when i don't know) of the society: that they tell the elders to advise the parent/caregiver to inform the authorities of alleged child abuse.
but how firm is this policy?
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Must obey!
Notwithstanding the plain fact that the Watchtower's heinous "two witness" rule is obviously flawed (scripturally and in terms of natural justice), it seems to me that as long as the elders are advising the parent/caregiver to go to the authorities in every case where an accusation of child abuse has occurred that this is sufficient for the elders to discharge their legal duty, shouldn't it?
I have heard rumours that this is in fact the official current policy (since when I don't know) of the Society: that they tell the elders to advise the parent/caregiver to inform the authorities of alleged child abuse.
But how firm is this policy? Is this a clear directive issued by the Society to all elders worldwide? Are the elders under instruction to always tell the parent/caregiver to go to the authorities or are the elders merely encouraged to do this? Are there any official forms where the elders must note their actions in this regard? What does the elders book say?
Although the argument is that elders should always be reporting the allegation themselves & not just leaving it to the parent/caregiver, whether or not the law requires them to (an argument which I fully endorse), surely as long as the elders are clearly telling the alleging parent/caregiver to tell the authorities (or someone else who will tell the authorities) about the allegation, then the matter can then be dealt with properly by the "higher authorities" and investigated thoroughly by the police. What is wrong with that approach?
Pending investigation by the secular authorities, surely the policy must be that the mere allegation of such an evil crime as child sexual abuse (only murder seems worse) should be enough to bar the accused from all privileges, whether or not guilt is established. This seems clear from Titus 1:7 and 1 Timothy 3:7& 10. In other words, once an allegation is made, the accused cannot claim to be "free from accusation" (different from "guilt") and no longer has a "fine testimony" (both from inside and outside the congregation). The mere existence of an allegation and it's accompanying suspicion of guilty should, scripturally, be enough for the accussed to lose all privileges. Since it can often be very difficult to prove paedophiles guilty (because of the secret, insidious nature of their crimes), this is surely why the scripture are worded this way...guilt or a criminal record are not necessary...scripture demands a higher standard of those overseeing the flock. They must be irreprehensible, not under any suspicious of gross wrongdoing. Clearly the mere accusation/allegation of child abuse is enough for them to no longer meet that high standard.
What is the Society's position on that? Are elders/ministerial servants/and others with positions of responsibility free to remain such even under accusation....or do they have all their privileges removed only if they confess or guilt is otherwise established?
Is the Society's policy comprehensivelys spelled out in one document? I find it confusing as it seems to be contained in piecemeal letters & directives issued from various branches over the years.
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Information Control- The Governing Bodies Way of Controlling JW ' s
by flipper inby now , most of you have probably been aware that the watchtower society and governing body has done a real cover up on the child abuse scandal that came out this year .
it has truly been amazing , that in spite of nbc news coverage of the child abuse crisis in the organization - probably 90 to 95 % of jehovah's witnesses did not know it even took place or happened at all .
the governing bodies way of exercising " information control " on the jehovah's witness rank and file members !
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Good post. This is a big part of the problem, however, many JW's even after hearing all the other information still remain loyal to the org because they rationalise the problems away, telling themselves that the organisation is not perfect, apostates blow the mistakes all out of proportion and although an imperfect org it is still the closest to the truth than any other religion by far.
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"Mind" Blowing Article on Watchtower Indoctrination! MUST READ!
by What-A-Coincidence inthe author (from australia) makes some great points.. http://www.noelbatten.com/watchtower.pdf.
46 pages long.
some excerpts:.
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Must obey!
This articles claims about hypnosis at meetings is complete nonsense and has been roundly dissed in earlier threads. It's nothing to do with hypnosis..it's just good old fashioned religious brainwashing.
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WANDERLUSTGUY CONDUCTS THE WATCHTOWER
by V inhappy christmas!
stay tuned this week to see.... .
wanderlustguy as visiting speaker of.
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Must obey!
I appreciate being able to see all the upcoming Watchtower Study articles lined up in chronological order like that. Helps keep things in perspective. One can see there is hardly anything meaty or doctrinal coming through these days; 80% of the study articles now are just glorified Kingdom Ministry articles, focusing on the broad theme of "do more JW works & avoid the world". That sums up the message these days. How utterly trite & boring. Thanks V and please keep that up.
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JW's, not apostates, are trapped in the snare of trembling at men
by Must obey! inthe society and it's circuit overseers love to harp on about apostates being caught in the "trap of the birdcatcher".
(psalm 91:3) but it is jw's who are hopelessly trapped in another, equally dangerous snare.
proverbs 29: 25 "trembling at men is what lays a snare, but he that is trusting in jehovah will be protected.".
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Must obey!
The Society and it's circuit overseers love to harp on about apostates being caught in the "trap of the birdcatcher". (Psalm 91:3) But it is JW's who are hopelessly trapped in another, equally dangerous snare.
Proverbs 29: 25 "Trembling at men is what lays a snare, but he that is trusting in Jehovah will be protected."
JW's tremble before the Governing Body and their disfellowshipping policy. They fear dissenting from the Society's teachings and being accused of apostasy and being cast out of the congregation. They fear and tremble at the prospect of being shunned by friends and family alike. They fear the constant doomsday message, that the end is near, and that they will be annihilated forever unless they remain a steadfast JW when Armageddon arrives.
Fear of a few old but very powerful men comprising the Governing Body is the motivating force of the entire organisation. Fear and trembling before the GB and their Watchtower Society rules JW's minds and consciences. The GB can say almost whatever they want and the average JW will submissively follow. If that is not trembling before men then what is?
Thus JW's are not fully trusting Jehovah, since they have no faith in Jehovah apart from their total submission to the Governing Body. They are inextricably bound together: unquestioning loyalty to the GB and faith in Jehovah; they are inseparable in the minds and psyche of JW's. They cannot perceive worshipping Jehovah apart from their blind submission to the GB. To fear Jehovah means to fear the GB. And so their fear of Jehovah has become the fear of men's (the Governing Body's) commandments, something Jehovah will punish. - see Isaiah 29:13.
Some who have left the organisation have fallen victim to bitterness and hatred, but that is nothing compared to the massive snare that the entire JW organisation finds itself trapped in, the snare of trembling at their own Governing Body, who demand and ruthlessly enforce complete mental subjection from all those in the organisation they rule over.
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Is this why the WTBTS is changing the "generation" meaning?
by TooBad TooSad induring the 1970's, 80's and 90's i was always calculating how old the generation was that.
saw 1914. at one time they had to be at the age of discernment 12 to 14 years old.
and then it was just being born by 1914. well we all know that this watchtower teaching.
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Must obey!
Good topic but your post didn't make a lot of sense to me. I don't understand why you feel the numbers could start dropping by 500 or so a year from 2010 onward, when for the last two years the numbers have gone up by about 230 & 300 each year? With the 1935 'deadline' removed, the numbers are likely to go up even more in years ahead, not go down like you surmise. Is your point that the Society are just going to have to lie about the figures and deliberately report large declines when the opposite is happening? Seems very far-fetched. If the numbers keep going up at they rate they are they will just eventually come up with some "new light" about the 144,000, for example, they will just say that the 144,000 is a symbolic number representing a divine, heavenly completeness/fullness of those chosen to rule in heaven.